Tuesday, August 02, 2005

Today's Howick & Pakuranga Times

Pity about the headline!


Give interest-free money to everyone, not just students, scoffs Williamson

LABOUR candidate Michael Wood is ‘stoked’ by his party’s proposed student loans policy.

“Along with many other young New Zealanders, I am absolutely stoked by the pledge card announcement that Labour will scrap the interest on student loans for graduates living in New Zealand,” said the Pakuranga candidate.

“This policy will make a real difference to 400,000 young New Zealanders with loans. A friend of mine with post-graduate qualifications has a $50,000 loan and a $55,000 salary.

Under Labour’s policy he’ll pay off his loan eight years quicker, saving $47,000. This policy will encourage New Zealand’s best and brightest to keep their skills and talents here in New Zealand.

That’s good for young New Zealanders and good for our economy.”

But Mr Woods’ views predictably don’t sit well with Pakuranga National MP Maurice Williamson.

“I think it’s an appallingly reckless thing to do,” said Mr Williamson, who attributes the move to “desperation”.

“What if you’ve gone and done something else in life, like a bricklayer or electrician - why don’t you get free money for your business to get yourself set up?”

He quipped: “[under Labour’s policy] you’d be mad not to enrol in a tertiary institution and borrow to the maximum, then stick the money into some form of government bonds where it’s safe, make the interest off it, and never have to pay interest on the money you’re owing.

“It’s a bad signal. If giving people interest-free money is a good idea, why don’t they give it to businesses, why don’t they give it to homeowners for their mortgages – interest-free money for everyone, it would be great.”


spooks said...

On a salary of $55,000, and on a benefit. A benefit costing $47,000 which check-out operators and road-workers will be paying for. This is not fair.

spooks said...

And btw, Chris Sugrue, writer at the H&P Times, you might like to see Labour candidate Michael Wood's comments on all the more elderly taxpayers in his electorate. Micheal seems to think that the only purpose of oldies is to shutup, and pay their taxes, so that that young people can find ways to have the Government spend it on young people. His abuse of the elderly is at the end of Michael's thread titled "Poll Surge" I would have thought there might be just the odd one or two elderly residents of Pakuranga who might be just a tad offended by Micheal's attack on the elderly.

spooks said...

Michael Wood 2/8/2005 -- "It's time for older people to move on with their lives and let todays young people have a fair go, but we expect you older people to pay for our youthful indulgences."

Ryan said...

Spooks, Micheal Wood aka Bertrand Bargolias can little afford to alienate the voters in Pakuranga.

Wood may be interested in http://www.executive.govt.nz/96-99/minister/williamson/electorate/electorate.htm which shows approx. 45% of voters in Pakuranga are aged 45+. Whoops!

Another nieve Labour candidate, wet-behind-the-ears, and shooting off at the mouth without thinking.

He'll be lucky to beat the highly visible but misguided Steve Baron in Pakuranga pushing his BCIR barrow.

spooks said...

BTW, Michael, what is the Maori word for FLIP-FLOP?

Anonymous said...

Yes, there are many many people aged over 45 in Pakuranga who are the parents and grandparents of students and graduates weighed down with student loans.....

Cheezy said...

Hello Ryan (and anyone else who may be interested)...

In case you don't know this, Spooks lied about that quote. Spooks changed the wording and then attributed it to Michael, who never said that stuff about expecting older folk to pay for our youthful indulgences.

We haven't had an apology from him yet (and personally I'm not holding my breath for one) but we do have an admission of guilt, later on in that 'Poll Surge' thread.

Just thought everyone should know.

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Cheezy said...

Willkommen, Chris! Ich hoffe, dass Sie Ihren Aufenthalt genie├čen!

spooks said...

Cheezy, nice of you to refer people to that thread. It's the same thread in which I exposed Michael's lie that "student debt per person has begun coming down under Labour's policies". I posted the exact figures which exposed the lie, and Michael subsequently acknowledged the lie, all within that same thread.

It is also the thread in which Michael said these exact words

"It's time for older people to move on with their lives and let todays young people have a fair go"

Ageism personified.

When asked if the older people who were expected to move aside, were the same ones who were expected to pay for the youthful indulgences, Michael Wood declined comment.

michael wood said...

Hello also Chris, I hope you are an SPD supporter ;-)

It's interesting actually, whenever I speak to retired voters in Pakuranga, one of their top concerns tends to be student debt. I am quite sure that the interest-free policy will go down as well in the retirement villages as it does on the campuses.

They are keen for their granchildren to have the same opportunities to get ahead that they had at the start of adult lives. It's hard to do that with a five figure debt hanging over your head. Labour is addressing this problem, National will not.

spooks said...

So did Spooks lie? Certainly not according to the well and truly established benchmarks already established on this blog. Lying is the norm for the leftie posters here. The cries for some truth are the one prevailing constant from ALL the centre-right posters here. The host is quite happy to turn a blind eye to the crap his followers post here. Perhaps it's sign of the times, but this blog reflects that truth is not a priority of today's young people. What a horrible outlook for the future.

spooks said...

So who is going to pay for the fair go for the young people, Michael. The moved aside older people? Still declining comment I notice.

spooks said...

Those people who have a five-figure debt, have it because they borrowed it. No one made them borrow it. But when you put it under their noses... ...

But for most of them, they also have a six-figure asset, which they will have for the rest of their lives, and which we paid for.

Michael, if you had an ounce of responsibility in you as a potential leader you would be pointing these things out, instead of creating the ingredients for even greater debt. You would be looking at the figures about which you lied earlier, and learning from the history shown in them. But, like I said, "if you had an ounce of responsibility".

spooks said...

You know what is most frustrating about this, Michael.

I know that you are intelligent enough to know that I am correct. But you haven't the guts to go with what is best for the country. You're a puppet to clark. Whimp.

michael wood said...

Spooks, this is frustrating.

Firstly, you have lied on this thread by stating that I've said things that I patently have not. Anyone can check this.

Secondly, you're utterly fixated on the notion that this policy is some kind of a gift to students to the point of excluding any other considerations.

Are you actually suggesting that any state subsidy of tertiary education is invalid? Because if not charging interest on loans is an immoral impost on taxpayers, then surely any subsidy on tertiary study is equally unjustifiable. This would mean no student allowances and standard fees around three time the current level.

Actually, by the same logic we should wind up National Superannuation (a cynical bribe for the grey vote), stop funding public schools and hospitals(public money into a slush fund for those who 'choose' to have children), and abandon even a safety net welfare system (why should I pay tax just because someone else is too sick to work?).

Is this really what you believe? Or is it just that Student loans are a special case? If so, why?

spooks said...

Again and again, because the beneficiaries of it are the best educated, the best paid, and are destined to be the wealthiest people in the country. And we have already paid for an asset that they have for life, their Qualifications which are worth on average, hundreds of thousands of dollars. It is an electoral bribe, with no justification. It will cost a billion dollars a year, and someone has to pay. Who pays (apart form moved-on older right -wingers) is check out operators, secretaries, road workers and registry clerks, and yes, even other beneficiaries. And that is not fair - AND YOU KNOW IT!

spooks said...

"It's time for older people to move on with their lives and let todays young people have a fair go"

Quoted from the offending thread.

And the newest thread, on Credit Card 4, is misrepresented too. It is very frustrating, that the lefties here can misrepresent things with impunity. Blind eyes are repeatedly turned. But Heaven Help if a centre-right person so much as uses poetic licence.

Cheezy said...

Poetic license!!! Superb, Spooksy! :-p

Putting quotation marks around a snippet of text that you've rearranged to suit you own purposes, and attributing it to someone else with their name and date... is something called 'poetic license' apparently!


That's probably what Goebbels would have called it too, I reckon! Poetic license... you kill me!... hahaha...

Don't ever change, Spooksy. We love you just the way you are :-)

spooks said...

OH, and again and again on this too - the free graduate loans will not reduce the debt mountain. Look at what happened when interest was waived during the study period. The figures are posted on this blog. But instead, when I caught you out on your misrepresentation of those figures, Michael, instead of facing the fact, you did a SmarmyMaharey and contrived an alternative spin of the figures - an indecipherable spin. The fact is, interest-free was supposed to deal to the debt mountain from year 2000, and it didn't. And again, it will not. It is a con job. AND YOU KNOW IT! Again, the proof, the dollar amounts, are posted on this blog.

spooks said...

"It's time for older people to move on with their lives and let todays young people have a fair go"

No poetic licence, Cheezy. It's there for all to see.

spooks said...

What IS poetic licence Cheezy, is Michael Wood telling his public that Labour will end Treaty claims by 2020, when that is not what they have said at all. Michael Wood sets the benchmark for his own blog. I'm just falling into line, following suit. Or is it - do as I say, not as I do. Rules for us and rules for you, and we set the rules for you. Lots of mots for the situation.

Anonymous said...

But spooks, what is true is that when the interest-free whilst studying policy was introduced Treasury predicted an explosion in the proportion of students taking out loans.
It didn't happen. There was a small increase of a few percent.

spooks said...

See what I mean. Lefties come in here and spout nonsense like this, and the hosts turn a completely blind eye.

I so much as use some poetic license, and I am compared to no less than Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's
chief propagandist, murderer of millions. Just a tad OTT don't you think. Still that is the benchmark for the blog as set by the host.

Now then, reality check time. Total student debt mountain 3 June 2000, about the time interest was waived for the study period, and well into the first year under Labour -- $3.4 bilion.

So ilet's shall we add "a small increase of a few percent" as described above. After all that's what Labour promised to do, was to stop the debt mountain growing. Labour put the brakes on at the same time, both in terms of type of borrowing and capping amounts, and stopping lump sum drawings. So what did all these braking mechanisms produce. Have a guess, $3.7 billion? Maybe at even a generous twenty percent, that would give us maybe $4 billion.

Well how about the fact that it has doubled since, to 6.8 billion. Yes, all the excuses under the sun will now come out to explain away this reality check, but the fact is that Labour promised to curb the growth of the mountain then, and is promising it again now. Labour's promises failed then and will again this time.

And an intelligent person like Michael Wood obviously KNOWS this. Michael has the brains, but not the balls. I'm betting that Michael has some really good ideas for how to genuinely deal with the debt mountain. But The Party Wimmen have deprived him of his balls, and he can do nothing but dance the Party tune.

Cheezy said...

Yes, it's that time again, folks. So pull up a chair, get comfy, and welcome to: 'Spoosky's Remedial Reading Time!'


Yes Spoosky. I did compare you to "no less than Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's chief propagandist, murderer of millions". But only in-so-far as you both spread misinformation. So there's the similarity right there. You with me so far?

You'll notice that I did not say that there aren't also some significant differences between you and Goebbels. There are. For a start, he was actually good at what he did. i.e. He had people believing what he said - rather than just laughing contemptuously - which is the response that you tend to elicit.

And as for the "murderer of millions" bit, I'll let you off the hook here too - cos I'm sure we would have heard about it if you'd been 'offing' millions of people in the short breaks that you take between posting to this blog.... So, it looks like the only thing you've been murdering is intelligent debate.

So don't worry, ol' Spooksy - you're not that much like Joe. Just a bit :-)

spooks said...

You call your post intelligent debate? I see. Got anything at all to say on topic? I actually don't care what you say about me. Because there is no such thing as Spooks, hence the name. Spooks job is to make sure this blog does not get traction in its objective of skewing the truth just slightly in Labour's favour, completely devoid of Party responsibility. Poor Michael, tasked with being the Labour team's Disinformation Manager. Sad really, takes a smart and committed person, but there ain't no future in it with the Party. Bit like suicided bombers really. No future. Your last mission Michael is to disseminate the disinformation favourable to the Party. As always, Mr Phelpps, the Party will deny any knowledge of or responsibility for you actions. But of course as host of the disinformation site, you realise your future with the Party is way too seriously compromised for your to ever again be of any use to us.

spooks said...

So you see, Cheezy, you see how you are actually helping my cause. There are two ways in which I succeed in subverting Michael's disinformation task. The first way I succeed is by pointing out and/or correcting Michael's mistakes. The second is boring people so stupid, they stop coming here. Thanks for your invaluable contribution to the latter, Cheezy.

Cheezy said...

I've just had an enlightening thought - an epiphany, if you will. It's this: Spooksy must be right in everything that he's said on this blog because he's always had the last word in every thread he's contributed to. Check out every thread, you'll see that the last word is always Spooksy's. I mean, this must be 100% proof of his guru-like knowledge about all of the topics raised, right? (OK, I admit, he does spawn some very amused private emails between the rest of us - but they don't count, right? Spooksy always has the last word on the threads, which means that he's the winner. It's quantity rather than quality that counts in this game - we know this now).

Y'all agree with this don't you? This last word thing must mean he's terribly smart. It simply can't be the product of a 6 year old's tit-for-tat temperament and a micro-penis to match, right?

Ah well... one day... perhaps... Spooksy will put his trousers back on and decide to rejoin the rest of society. He may find it tough, but I do wish him well in his endeavours.

Anyway, let's get back onto (some sort of) topic. You mentioned 'flip-flopping', Spooksy. Would you care to explain your man Don Brash's ever-changing positions on gay people (mainstream or not mainstream?) the Superfund (yes or no?) and the War on Iraq (shall we put a big bullseye on NZ or shall we not?).

(Or is it only the Labour govt we're shining the flashlight on here?).

We're looking forward to your justification of why this man is even remotely fit to be PM... And remember: Last word wins!

Anonymous said...

Now, spooks, read carefully:

"But spooks, what is true is that when the interest-free whilst studying policy was introduced Treasury predicted an explosion in the PROPORTION OF STUDENTS taking out loans.
It didn't happen. There was a small increase of a few percent".....

in the proportion of students taking out loans, not the total amount of student debt, or average debt per debt-holder....the latter, which as your very figures on earlier threads have shown, has only increased by the rate of inflation under Labour, after exploding in real terms under National....

spooks said...

So what? Labour campaigned on the size of the debt mountain, and all Labour did was further contribute to the massive growth of it. Same deception as today.

spooks said...

Student loan borrowers 30/6/00 275,000

Student loan borrowers 30/6/05 445,000

Labour were not campaigning to maintain the 12 percent annual growth in numbers, they campaigned to stop the growth. They failed. Interest-free failed.

This is a benefit being redistributed from poor, struggling taxpayers to university graduates, the best paid, wealthiest and best educated people in New Zealand. And that is not fair.

spooks said...

Penis, Cheezy, Penis indeed?

Is that what you call intelligent debate?

spooks said...

Cheezy, promoting Don Brash on this site is not in my brief. Exposing this as a Labour propaganda disinformation site is.

Anonymous said...

so, again, spooks, you'd have rather had it that Labour had placed all those students on a benefit-style student allowance?

Or not allowed them to study?

spooks said...

God, you are so thick, Nony, How many times do you have to be told?


And you are having a hard enough time trying to work out what you are saying yourself, without trying put words in my mouth as well.

Go and have a little rest, Nony.

Anonymous said...

right, so you do have a problem now with benefit-style student allowances, having said you did not have a problem with them before?

It's very simple what is being asked here, spooks....

spooks said...

No, I have never had such a problem. Clearly you have problems.

Look, I have no problem with you wanting to play. But would you please not ever-exert yourself. You are clearly finding it hard to keep up with the rest of us.

Anonymous said...

well I'm just waiting for your answer spooks.....

spooks said...

Again and again and again, because the beneficiaries of it are the best educated, the best paid, and are destined to be the wealthiest people in the country. And we have already paid for an asset that they have for life, their qualifications which are worth on average, hundreds of thousands of dollars. It is an electoral bribe, with no justification. It will cost a billion dollars a year, and someone has to pay. Who pays (apart form moved-on older right -wingers) is check out operators, secretaries, road workers and registry clerks, and yes, even other beneficiaries. And that is not fair

Cheezy said...

>>>Cheezy, promoting Don Brash on >>>this site is not in my brief. >>>Exposing this as a Labour >>>propaganda disinformation site >>>is.

Then how come you're not doing either?

In Spooksy's world, indulging in nonsensical ranting and getting awfully upset obviously counts as an 'expose'... Woodward & Bernstein have little to fear methinks.

Don't worry, we've all noted that nobody else can find any good words to say about Don either!

spooks said...

So long as you're talking about me, Cheezy, that is one means to an end. All you are doing by constantly ranting about a non-entity called Spooks, is making this site so bloody boring that no-one will come back to see the disinformation. Suits me. And speaking of disinformation, don't suppose you can explain Michael's massive misrepresentation of the Labour Treaty policy.

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