Wednesday, September 07, 2005

Gone by Lunchtime

This is very funny.

Mainly because it is true. All it does is quote back Brash's various contradictory positions on a range of issues.

Not everyone 'likes' Helen Clark or agrees with all of Labour's policies, but a number of right leaning voters have told me during the campaign that at least they know what they are getting with her. With Brash, who knows what the policy will be next week? His comment the other day that he could not comment on National's housing policy because he had not "read the press statement" was a new low.

I think that this leadership issue will be a critical one in these closing weeks of the campaign.


spooks said...

God, I wish Brash were able to lie like a normal politician. Brash is just too straight, too lawyerly, for his own good. If only he could just deny, deny, deny like Labour politicians.

Speaking of flip-flops, Labour has had more than Bondi Beach in a heat wave over the last year or so, mostly in response to National initiatives. And the sad part for you, Michael, is that voters know all this. Doesn't matter how many times you tell the lie about lunchtime, voters know it is still a lie. You treat voters as idiots at your own expense.

And if you spend all your time bagging your opposition, rather than trumpeting your own success, you will lose every time - Politics 101. Why are you not shouting your successes from the rooftops? Because there aren't any to shout about.

And no-one believes you any more anyway. Labour has told one lie to many. Now it is assumed that everything you say is fabrication. No-one believes the Labour lies any more.

Rob Good said...

Spooks is right I told you before...It may be character building for you but you are waisting your time with Labour....
The spin and truth bending, the vote buying and the promises that is coming out of your party is embarassing for you. Get out while the boat is still above water..... Come to the right...You can do it.

span said...

if no one believes Labour anymore why are they still polling constantly above 35%, (usually about 40%) which is considerably more than National polled in 2002?

face it guys, there are people out there, ordinary NZers who support Labour. You and I might dislike that (for completely different reasons) but to deny it is to completely stick your head in the sand.

Too Right said...

Why is Labour not trusted any more, by many? Helen Clark signing paintings she did not paint. Her staff destroying evidence in Paintergate. Helen Clark not supporting the loyal policemen who were then charged with Dangerous Driving - driving in the course of serving her. The charges arising because she told one lie after another in respect of the canterbury dash - such that she could not bring herself to say they drove to meet the time expectations of her entourage. David Benson-Pope unresolved assault allegations. The dissembling about the thin pickings available in the budget then unleashing a torrent of new cash just prior to the election.

How's that as a starter?

Cheezy said...

Hmmm. The starter is a combination of media-cliche and irrelevance.

For your sake, I hope you've got a more substantial main course...

Too Right said...

That site is a joke - not even a good caricature or voice (which is apparently Darren Hughes Helen's little sycophant).

Labour's campaign is in free fall. It has a necrotic smell wafting out.

Surely you guys cannot be serious? Putting that on your own site? The Labour website is turning into the longest suicide note in history.

Anonymous said...

"Helen Clark not supporting the loyal policemen who were ... driving in the course of serving her"

In fact, they were public servants exercising their professional discretion in the service of the Crown, which is why she does not give them instructions on their day to day work.
They are not her personal staff.

spooks said...

I stand by what I said. No-one believes Labour any more. The difference is that there is a group who think that lying is a necessary part of politics, and that they are stuck with it, no matter who they vote for. And then there are those who would support Labour because they don't value truth themselves, so why should they require it of their politicians. You seem to be among them Span (and others). I am not.

Anonymous said...

i stopped believing labour when they said that only 5% would pay their "envy tax". it is now over 13%. so much for "my commitments to you". what a joke. this is one voter who has left labour for greener pastures

Anonymous said...


New Zealand's better off without whingers like this who think they are so virtuous and valuable.
What they don't understand is the work ethic. People who have a work ethic don't whinge about moderate marginal tax rates and pack off overseas on the basis of their hurt feelings - they know that it's work's intrinsic and social value that counts beyond a certain material point, and get stuck in...

spooks said...

Curious to know, how much tax you are now paying elsewhere, which used to be tax paid to New Zealand and New Zealanders, and which some are so haughty and pretend we don't miss you and your dollars. Only fooling themselves if they think your capital and hard work and enterprise isn't missed, along with the thousands like you. Either that, or they are just too stupid to be even bothered with any explanation.

For mine, when I got hit by Clark's tax increases, I simply closed down my business, sacked all the staff, and have not bothered to work since. I made it very clear to them why I was retiring early. Why work more than two days to end up with a day's pay? I'm sweet, but those who lost their jobs as a result, were decidedly unhappy, and learnt first-hand how there is a cost to be paid for greedy tax policies. They will not vote for Labour again.

CutFoldGlue said...

You think they had any problems getting new jobs?

Unemployment is at its lowest ever and we're lowest in the OECD. You must have been just about the only one to close up shop. Good one Spooks.

spooks said...

You will believe anything.

The cost of welfare is the highest it has ever been, so don't give me the lowest unemployment lie.

If nothing else, this government are experts at the art of presenting good statistics.

Hospital waiting lists anyone?

spooks said...

And 600 every week leaving for Australia. Thank God for all the Asians taking their place as hard-working employers and entrepreneurs.

span said...

spooks said "god, i wish brash were able to lie like a normal politician. brash is just too straight..."

so spooks, what is your view on the fact that Brash has now been exposed as lying about knowing about the Exclusive Bretheren leaflet?

Insolent Prick said...

Spooks, firstly, you're on thin ice claiming that Don Brash knew about the Exclusive Brethren leaflet.

Oh, and Michael, since you're reading, I've asked a question on my blog about how much support you're currently getting from the FinSec union to campaign. You can catch that at

Anonymous said...

Well, IP, people volunteer to join and leave unions as you know.

Whether people volunteer to join the Bretheren is another question. They seem to be born into the trap, and leaving is a tormenting personal struggle.

Would you have felt at home in the company of the seven patriarchal bigots lined up on the front page of the Herald I wonder?

There is no comparison between unions and the bretheren.

Insolent Prick said...

See, anonymous, now you're making judgement calls, both against the people who wrote the leaflet, and against me.

I have not said anything to support the Brethren. Nor, actually, has Don Brash. What he has made clear is that he did not write the pamphlet, had no involvement in its production or distribution.

Brash cannot be held responsible for a group he had nothing to do with sending out a pamphlet. We do have free speech in this country.

On the other hand, Labour is colluding with the unions. The unions are heavily subsidised by the taxpayer, and the Government coerces many public servants to join the union by making bonus payments to union-members.

In return, the unions are spending a fortune producing and distributing propaganda for Labour's campaign. That is a disgrace.

spooks said...

"Spooks, firstly, you're on thin ice claiming that Don Brash knew about the Exclusive Brethren leaflet." I said nothing of the sort. I said nothing about the ExBreth. I said nothing even on the subject.

And Span, Brash has not lied.

No-one is suggesting he has. Not even Helen Clark. So please don't make it up here. There are enough fabrications going on without your bullshit here adding to it.

The best you with the benefit of hindsight can claim is that he may have been politically naive, and that he possibly could have put two-and-two together and guessed that the anti-Green brochure had been done by the ExBreth. And that's all. That does not make him a liar.

Just because you lefties think that lying is normal behaviour, and that everyone lies, well guess what. Get used to it. Some people actually don't regard it as normal, and so don't. Yes, they actually exist.

CutFoldGlue said...

Ok spooks - OECD data are 'lies' but your invented non-data about welfare are not.

Acutally spooks, quite a few media commentators (Alistair Thompson [1], Russel Brown [2] et al.) think that Brash lied. You'll probably say something derogatory about them or me in leu of an arguement, but that's to be expected from you.




michael wood said...

This is a serious credibility issue for National.

I won't say at this point that Brash actually lied (I'll need to check his earlier statements), but both Key and Brownlee definitely made statements as late as yesterday that were untrue - ie) National did not know about the leaflets. Brash has now confirmed that this is untrue.

If it's all as innocent as some commentators on this thread suggest, why the deception? Why also the deception from the '7 men' that they were doing this as indviduals, who just happen to all belong to this nutty group. It has been clearly established that this is untrue - the Bretheren invovlement is far deeper.

All very murky, and a bad look for a Party who say they are ready to govern.

spooks said...

Careful Michael, or you'll be up before Human Rights for your obvious prejudices here against the Church.

By the Way, why will you not release the official Treasury costings on your Graduate Loans policy. What are you hiding? ... Massive costs are predicted by Treasury is why.

And why is the Wananga Auditor-General's Report being withheld till after the election? ... Massive waste and massive nest feathering is why.

CutFoldGlue said...

"...your obvious prejudices here against the Church."

The Brethrends Spooks. I'll assume you're being deliberately stupid.

spooks said...

It is Labour who are promoting Hate Speech legislation. And what Michael says above would be in breach of same. It is in breach too of Human Right legislation already in our law books. But to be expected. We have seen that Labour don't care much about observing the law. Just ask Harry. Break the law? That's okay, we'll write a new law especially for you.

And can't any of you spell Brethren?

CutFoldGlue said...

National MP Nick Smith previously said of the Brethrens (got the spelling right this time):

"...involved in extreme forms of psychological blackmail... children had been brainwashed... commercial blackmail and people being driven to suicide... we should not become so tolerant that we condone, by our silence, extreme intolerance"

No, "nutty" is a fair description.

Funny that the National party's stance has softened so much as to accept their support this time around.

spooks said...

Sorry, CFG, but I have no tolerance for your intolerance of the EB's intolerance.

CutFoldGlue said...

Ok, so you don't agree with National Party MP Nick Smith.

michael wood said...

The front page of the Friday Herald had a similar take on Brash's habit of flip-flopping, with a graphic of the different statements he has made on the Bretheren issue.

It is not only Labour who is highlighting Brash's duplicity.

spooks said...

And even after it's been pointed out, they still can't spell Brethren.

There is only one reason why Labour keep talking u-turns and flip-flops. It's a feeble attempt to shift attention away from Labour's own year of flip-flops.

Still wondering why the Wananga Auditor-General's Report is being suppressed till after the election.

Still wondering why the Treasury costings of Labour's graduate loans policy is being suppressed till after the election.

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